Embracing Tech in Your Sunshine Coast Business (even for non-techy businesses) with Kris Carver

Full Transcript

Note: the following transcript was generated by AI and therefore may contain some errors and omissions.

You’ll be left out if you’re not doing it because others will be doing it. What do I need to do? Why would I do that? Why would I make that change if I’m a delivery person? Well, this is going to get, this going to last this much longer. It’s going to allow this the same thing for technology. trying to really lift that standard and so people can go as a business. I know that I’ve got access to great technologists on the Sunshine Coast as a business. I know that I can do this from the Sunshine Coast. Before we get started, the team here at the Coast and Commerce podcast want to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land where this podcast is created, the Kabi Kabi and Jinibara people. We honour their rich culture of storytelling as we share the inspiring stories of business leaders across the Sunshine Coast. We pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging. Let’s get on with the show. 

G’day and welcome back to the Coast and Commerce podcast. This is the show where we bring inspiring stories from business leaders across the Sunshine Coast and beyond to hopefully help you in whatever you do in business on the Sunshine Coast. I’m Ben Amos from Innovate Media.

And we have here one of those inspiring business leaders, which is Kris Carver from Entag. Kris, welcome to the Coast and Commerce podcast studio. Good to have you here. Awesome. Thank you. Great to be in the new studio too. Well done, Ben. Looks great. Yeah, we’re loving this new space. So as we get into today’s episode, we are going to talk a little bit about tech and techie stuff and a bit of AI and all that sort of stuff. But I just want to caution the listeners or the viewers, even if you don’t consider yourself a tech industry type of business, stick around because this is going to be valuable for you.

So tell me Kris, a little bit about yourself. So what’s your story? You what brought you to the coast of you being here all your life and tell me about yourself. I don’t want to age myself, but I’ve been here a long time. So it’s 1987 Sunshine Coaster. So, very proud Sunshine Coast person. Love it. Love everything there is really about the coast and you know it’s more for me, it’s more than just lifestyle realistically, it’s really the people and the community that I love the most about being on the coast. So yeah I’ve been here for a very long time, moved here as a kid and went to University of Sunshine Coast, went to local schools, all that sort of thing so.

Worked in a corporate world for close to 20 years with one of Australia’s largest corporates and then saw the opportunity with a friend of mine from the Sunshine Coast here to start something that was a little bit different and that was to really create a place where people could form tech careers on the Sunshine Coast and there wasn’t that really existing on the coast. There’s a lot of small to medium size or small players but there wasn’t really a place where people could and go, OK, I’m going to be here and then I’m going to create and keep going with my career, level one, level two, level three. So we looked at that and sort of starting that back in 2013.

And that’s where we sit today. So we’re about 100 strong ICT or tech organisations based here in Birtinya on the Sunshine Coast, that’s Entag. That’s Entag. Absolutely. So what’s the core of what Entag do just for those? we’re a technology managed services business. So we basically take really great tech ecosystems that are out in the marketplace, know, Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Fortinet, Telstra, take those ecosystems and then go and make sure that they’re working in

in all types of organisations so that those organisations can really thrive in what they do best. And you need to have those. You need to have those foundations. You need to be able to use that technology. It will help you differentiate yourself against your competitors. And that’s what we help organisations do right across the country. Yeah. But headquartered here on the Sunshine Coast and majority of the team here? At least half the team here. Birtinya. So we’re in Vitality Village in Birtinya. And yeah, we’ve got…

Yeah, got a great team of people here. Tell me about like your view of the tech industry on the Sunshine Coast. So you’ve been in it for a while. You said 2013. I remember that. Well, that was when Entag started. I’ve been in the tech industry on the coast for quite a while. I worked for Telstra. was the area general manager for Sunshine Coast all the way to central Queensland. And so I’ve worked throughout the tech industry on the coast since 2000.

So how would you describe the tech industry on the coast today in 2024? Yeah, look, I think the tech industry is emerging. I think that’s probably the best way to describe it. We haven’t really founded ourselves as well as some of the other groups have and some of the other industries on the Sunshine Coast. We’re looking to do that. We’ve got some really great established organisations, the Sunshine Coast Tech Industry Alliance is one of those that’s really trying to go and demonstrate, let’s bring the industry together to support organisations right across the Sunshine Coast to lift the technology game and how we can be a real area that…

has great foundations, but then also lift and go, how can we be better as a business cohort with utilising technology? You look at some of our most successful businesses on the coast, the reason they’re successful is because they’ve differentiated using technology. So when you think about this tech industry on the Sunshine Coast is currently emerging, the way you describe it. for talent, for people who looking to get into the tech industry or to start a career or

developer career in the tech industry, where are they typically going if they’re not staying here on the coast now? Like are they having to go to the capital cities? that the thing? I think that you’re used to. When I graduated university here from the University of Sunshine Coast, I did, had to initially go to Brisbane.

managed to work my way back to the Sunshine Coast within four years, but I did originally have to go away. I think there’s a lot more organisations now that are being more sophisticated in the tech world. So, you take your UEs and even the council and some of these other larger organisations have quite large IT teams. So there’s opportunities within those if you’re looking for a corporate style arrangement for your first ones. But then there’s a lot of great emerging or growing organisations like here.

and tags or secure accesses and that sort of thing on the coast as well that are offering opportunities and internships and all that whether you’re coming through the TAFE system or out of high school or even university. So you mentioned the Sunshine Coast Tech Industry Alliance that’s been formed for a couple of years is that right? That’s right. What’s the mission there? What are you hoping to achieve? So our mission is to technology use across businesses on the Sunshine Coast. So we really see it as like okay we’re not just aimed at

IT companies and have a real focus just for IT companies. Our role is really to go, what can we do to help from a Sunshine Coast point of view and from a technology point of view that’s help enable businesses right across the coast to have.

better access to technology, make sure they know how to engage and get that technology, but also just to help educate and grow the industry. Look, we work with both TAFE and University of Sunshine Coast. They both sit on the board with us to have that real help with a talent pool coming through to help organisations have access to young people and have access to people in general to be able to help their businesses with technology.

Yeah, awesome. Well, let’s just kind of clarify something because for the listener or watcher, here’s the word tech industry or tech business. What is that? Like what encompasses for you? Like what is the tech industry? What types of businesses are we talking about? Is it just IT companies? Well, I think a lot of people think it is just IT.

companies and they think, you’ve got to be either cybersecurity or you’ve got to be AI or you’ve got to be doing something with Microsoft or you’ve got something like that. But for me, if you’re looking at being a business that’s going to be successful into the next 20 years and wanting to grow and really compete nationally and internationally, technology is going to be your call.

There’s going to be, it’ll be some level of technology and that could be technology within manufacturing. It could be technology that you’re able to use certain applications and services to differentiate yourself against the way that your competitors are treating their customers. The way that people will engage or customers will engage with you will be via technology. So if you’re not thinking about technology or you’re not thinking about it as part of your business platform.

I think you’ll be in a position where your competitors will be beating you. And so this was really our mission from an industry alliance was to really lift that knowledge up and say, what can you do? How can you utilise this? What should you be doing? How can we do that? And then from a Sunshine Coast point of view, that lifts the whole of the business environment and gives everyone a bigger pie to work with. Well, I think it’s no surprise just living in society today that tech

and tech -based solutions and things are everywhere, right? You know, from smartphones in our pockets to, you know, internet connected devices throughout the home and, you know, tech is everywhere. It’s part of life today. You can’t ignore it. But I think for many businesses, maybe some of those more traditional using that inverted commas, those traditional businesses maybe don’t think of themselves as a tech -based business, right? Yeah, you’re right. I think a lot of them still see it as a cost. And I think the game changer for businesses will will be or is when they take it from seeing it as a cost to seeing it as an enabler.

or a differentiator, one of the two. And that’s the biggest change where we see organisations going, wow, look what I can do, look at the jump I can get on my competition, look at the new markets I can take on. That’s where we really see people changing their mindset and then go, it doesn’t just cost me $200 for this connection, this connection enables me to do this or this piece of software now allows me to go in and access new clients or provide a…

a better level of customer service or a better experience or that’s when it changes, not when you’re thinking, that’s just another cost on my business. You’ve got to really change the mindset. This is an enabler, it’s a differentiator. So let’s get practical for those businesses listening that might think of themselves as that traditional business. Maybe it’s a trade space business or agriculture or manufacturing or something like that.

or I guess hospitality as well on the coast, a big industry as well that’s traditionally cooking food in a kitchen and serving people in the restaurants and whatever. Let’s speak to those types of businesses who maybe don’t really think about themselves as a tech-based business. What are some of the ways that they can change that thinking and maybe propel that business forward? Yeah, well, I think if you get your foundations right, so make sure that you’ve got the right layers of…

you know, your connectivity and your software ecosystem platform sorted. You can then utilise pieces of software to then start to think about the way that you do, even just rostering for a hospitality business. That is a hard job. Make sure you’re using rostering software. If you then have, you know, your point of sale and it’s able to bring in information that allows you to market differently, then you’re able to use your social media channels to then get out and…

reach different audiences that may not know you exist because they’re not driving by, they’re not going to that part of the world, but then they see it on a different channel because you’re able to then go, this is the segment that’s coming to my venue or restaurant or whatever it may be, and going, now I can target others that are within a drivable range or I can target those that are coming up from Brisbane and that sort of thing to go come and see me. So if you’re not utilising that, you’re really just hoping that people drive

past or hear on word of mouth, well, that’s only going to reach a small segment. So if you’re not utilising just those simple things…

Then you can go further. I was just at Vitality Village just leaving then and the Sunshine Coast Business Women’s Network was just running a marketing with AI. And that takes it up another notch. so if there was at least 40 leaders in that room talking about that, so your competitors might be in that room already thinking about how they’re gonna utilise AI to automate some of their marketing, to be pulling through that data and that information to then be specifically targeting your customers.

because they want them in their store. And that’s the type of thing I mean by you’ll be left out if you’re not doing it because others will be doing it, they’ll be getting that. You then have to still do your business very well. Your traditional core business, you still need to produce amazing food, the experience has to be great, the customer service has to be there, but it’s then, you can do that and still not be successful because other people are targeting your…

customers in a different way. Well, I want to address two potential fears that or objections that this traditional type of business potentially has with adopting tech. And the first one and the big one often is traditionally they’re very human based businesses, these businesses that are based on humans delivering a service to a human or an experience to a human, right? And there’s that fear that if you bring too much tech into it, that it removes that and potentially

you know, takes away that human connection. What would you say to that?

I think that human plus tech is the future. That’s my opinion. I think when you look at even AI and you look at the use of AI, it’s those that are going to be able to harness the power that that brings, but with human. It’s a huge play for us, why Entag exists. You can have all the great technology ecosystems. Microsoft is the largest company in the world. It has a great ecosystem, underlying ecosystem, but a lot of people

can’t make it work because you need that personal touch, you need that understanding, you need me and you talking about, how do you want to use this? What’s this gonna do? And then my expertise is able to then go and make that work. It doesn’t just come out of a box and work. So we’re able to take technology and make it work the same way that core businesses, for example, would do that in their industry. they use the technology to attract, find,

work with clients, but then the human aspect and that core business delivery is still what they are good at. And that’s what we do. take technology, make it work so that you can still deliver those human interactions, that core business that you’re great at. You need to still be able to do that. And that’s the core of what you’re good at.

how you get those customers in, how you continue to engage with them when they leave, that’s where technology can really change the game for you because it’s only so much human to human you can do on the other.

seven days a week or that they’re not there with you, how are you engaging with them? What does that look like? You you look at some of the great experiences you receive with, car, automobile companies, when they’re able to engage with you and work with you through that time that, okay, I’ve bought the car, then what comes next until your next service? Those that are able to engage and keep touching base and, you know, is everything working to your expectations and all that.

they drive a level of advocacy that allows me to go, hey, you should go buy that car because they’re brilliant at what they do. That’s what you want. Yeah. I think that’s a nice segue into potentially the other big objection that I feel for these traditional businesses is that tech adoption is hard and disruptive. And, you know, anyone who’s ever tried to roll out a new software system within a business, whether it be any sorts of business.

there is often disruption and there is often a learning curve for your people and it’s perceived as a cost as you say even though potentially it shouldn’t be. So how do you approach that objection around that fear of disruption and change and that sort of thing that comes with tech adoption?

Yeah, look, is. It is a disruption. There absolutely will be. And I think this was the mindset change we talking about before, is you have to see it as an enabler. So the business case has to be right. It needs to stack and say…

I am going to take this journey, I’m going to lead from the top because the disruption that I’m thinking about here is going to be better for me in six, 12 months time, whatever that may look like, and I’m going to take my team, my organisation, my customers on that. The other thing I will say is when you start to look at this, start to really concentrate on ecosystems and being able to go and select successful ecosystems that you can then work in because then you don’t have as much disruption when you want to plug

something else in or pull another part of technology in to support your business, it’s much easier to integrate that, it’s much easier to plug and play versus going, I’ve just selected this random piece and this random piece and this random piece and now I want them to work together. Imagine that in the rest of your business.

you know, you’re buying equipment, you look at how can I buy the same type of equipment so that it all comes together nicely. It’s similar in technology. So find the right ecosystem, find that and then work to, to work within that. So to clarify ecosystems like Microsoft, Apple, yeah, or Apple, Google. Okay. Yep. And obviously, you know, many of these third party software tools kind of, they usually have integrations into various software. So checking that.

you know, it’s going to work and play nicely with what you’re currently using. Correct. Yeah. And that will be a big one. But if you’re working within those ecosystems as a, as a far better chance that it’s going to integrate well, then working just with a whole bunch of random pieces. And that’s where a lot of organisations, particularly small organisations that we see, and it’s very understandable. You’re trying to stand something up. You’re trying to bootstrap something on your, on your credit card or on some money that you’ve been able to save. You’re looking at the more cost.

effective options I suppose at the time that it seems like and so often organisations then grow and become a little bit successful and then all of a sudden they’ve got this dispersed area and it’s then

you’ve got to take a lens on this to go, well, is this going to be long term for me? Does this work? And it’s kind of like going from the cheaper Conovan or something to the Mercedes Sprinter. What do I need to do? Why would I do that? Why would I make that change if I’m a delivery person? Well, this is going to get this going to last this much longer. It’s going to allow this the same thing for technology.

So let’s talk to those, I might refer to them as tech reluctant businesses. those businesses who, you know, the fear is being left behind if they don’t kind of adopt the latest software or technology or something like that. coinciding with that fear is often the idea of, you know, we know what we know, you we know how to do this, this way, we’ve been successful for years, this way, why not keep going the way we’re going? What would you say to those businesses that…

are happy, they have a successful business, doing things the way they’re doing it, what’s the fear there or what’s the danger? It’s a wide ranging question because there’s so many industries and all that sort of stuff to take into it. I will say that your competition will be beating you to putting their…

view of the world or their business in front of them a lot more than your business. So your business will go down a path where it will only, the size and how successful it is will only be word of mouth or it’ll only be a… Now that can work for organisations and not…

Go for it, do you think? But I think if you’re really wanting to take your organisation to another level, and this is what we’re really after, is what are those organisations that want to grow and want to build? Because I think from a Sunshine Coast perspective, I think we’ve often looked outside and said, who can we attract to bring in here? I really have a…

a passion for looking internally and going, what can we grow from here? And that’s what I want to see both from a human perspective, a business perspective and that type of thing to say, hey, what do we have here already that’s awesome? How can we enable it even better, differentiate it and grow it from here? It gives opportunities right across the space. Yeah, awesome. So leading on from that, the idea of being in business on the Sunshine Coast, there’s a lot happening.

across the region in development in know Maroochydore city centre and you know down here in Aura where we are you know massive amounts of development and change happening across the coast you know how do you see the future viability of you know businesses growing and staying on the coast that are very tech focused type businesses you know is this the place to be or you know what’s the future here

Look, I love the development that’s happening on the Sunshine Coast. When I moved here, there was one set of traffic lights between Caloundra and Maroochydore. So that was at Kawana Shopping World. So it’s certainly changed since I’ve been here, but I think it’s all been for the, most of it has been for the better. And for me, the ability to have access to more talent, more people, and particularly from a tech, the thing about tech is, is it often enables you to grow without having to increase massive footprints and all that sort of thing.

And so with that technology enabled growth, this is absolutely the place to be. You don’t need necessarily huge facilities or something like that because you’re able to do things within an environment that allows you to go, okay, this is the technology angle and it’s going to allow us to grow. We’ve got people that work from home. We’ve got hybrid. We’ve got great spaces for people to come and work from. You know, I think all of the…

all of the development game changes, if you like, from the health precinct to international airport to the CBD to university to all of those are really just supporting growth of our region into a world class region, which is really exciting. And we’re really connected to an amazing region in Southeast Queensland. We’ve got access right across the board to an amazing region. you know.

between now and 2032 in particular, we’re an exciting space I can’t wait to see. And I hope that our leaders, whoever that may be after October, really take a step into that and really lead us forward too. Yeah, and the tech industry itself is a massively growing industry, right? Whether it be in the Sunshine Coast or around Australia and a stat from the Tech Industry Alliance website.

You said by 2026 Deloitte access economics forecast, there will be over 1 .1 million technology workers in Australia indicating a growth of more than 35 % from 2021. So, you know, that the stats don’t lie, you know, it is a growing industry and how do you see the sunshine coast positioning it as a, as a choice of location for people in that growing industry to come and live, work, play? Yeah, I think it starts.

at the base level and we’ve got some amazing teachers in high school.

across the Sunshine Coast and a number of schools and organisations from Glasshouse all the way up through to Parisian and up into Noosa and everything in between that are really supporting a growth. And I think one of the things the tech industry and inverted commerce hasn’t done well is really showcase a path of if you study this, if you put yourself into this industry, this is what will happen.

it would just not as clear as say accountants, lawyers, doctors and all that sort of thing. However, you look at some of the wages that are in the tech industry, I know what we’re having to pay and to keep great people, there is absolutely a pathway. It’s not as defined and you have to be willing and you have to be a person that wants to continuously learn. It is a changing industry and so with that we’ve got a

team of people at the high school that are really helping and leaning into it and creating young people that are interested in the industry itself. The TAFE has done a great job originally through Angelyle and now changing their method. They’ve got great things in cyber security and we’ve taken a number from an intake perspective from them that have done their diploma and now working through our help desk and then working further on and building up. And then the university as well with Rania Shibul

they’re doing a fantastic job of really looking into the way that they’re doing their courses and so the university has even changed their model and you know from University of Sunshine Coast point of view leading the way they’ve changed from just being traditional what I did when I was there back in

we won’t say when, but let’s say it had a 19 in front of it. Back then to now going, actually, when you finish, you’re gonna have Microsoft accreditation, you’re gonna have Cisco accreditation, you’re gonna have cybersecurity industry led certifications, so that when you come, you’re actually a benefit to the organisation that you’re coming to straight away. That is a huge change. That really hadn’t been done before in Australia. And I think there’s one university that’s now copied them, and there’ll probably be others that copy because it’s the highest form of flattery. That has to be your base. You have to get people interested.

We need mums and dads actually going, hey, it’s all right if you want to be in the tech industry. They’re not just people that sit in dark rooms and drink Coke and Vs and do stuff. There is all ranges of.

technology and in fact most of our people are really brilliant at being able to translate technology to people and you have to be a people focused person to do that. Yeah, it’s great to see that support and development from the ground up and and really solidifying the fact that you can do that here from the Sunshine Coast through the University of Sunshine Coast, well from schools, yes, and the University, know and stay here on the coast as well in a career for the rest of your life, right? Correct. If that’s what you want to do. That’s right, mean and

You know, we’ve got great young people, we’ve got great people on the Sunshine Coast. Some of our best stories are people that were…

Our lead from a capability and training perspective was my barista at Isba. So being out and was studying IT at University of Sunshine Coast and one of our really great success stories that’s now gone to work for a major corporate in Australia was a baker and a cake decorator from Landsborough. Amazing stories of young men and young women being able to take their careers and really build them as well within.

but also just from the Sunshine Coast, still living and working here and everything. I love it. Let’s take, just as we wrap up here, Kris, I’d love to see if we can take this conversation from somewhat theoretical down to some practical. And can you share any examples of businesses that you know that have really adopted and embraced technology, whether or not you can name them or not, it’s up to you, but just some examples so that we can make this tangible for those listening or watching about the real opportunity.

of embracing and thinking of yourself as a tech business even if you traditionally wouldn’t? Yeah, mean, there’s lots of them, but the ones that I think that you’re really starting to see successful, you know, I look at, there’s a couple of guys that were tradies, did a great job of…

really looking at the industry and going, do we start to change this? And we work hand in glove with them from supporting their business. They’re the brains. They’re looking at it going from an industry perspective, if we do this differently from a technology point of view, we’ll be able to create a differentiator and grow. And that’s what they’ve done. They’ve really taken the industry by storm and grown in the training space hugely because of what they did with technology. We support them from a foundational and make sure all

of the key foundational things and how your data is being looked after and all these really technical things. But what they bring is that this is our industry. If we do this with technology, we’ll be able to shift the paradigm on how it’s training. And they really change that with basically YouTube type 45 second videos for young people coming through into the trades industry. And it’s engaging, it’s quick, it’s really in the moment for them.

they’re growing in a great way. That is a really classic example of people that would go, well, that’s a tradition like tradie. That’s a tree. How are going to do technology in that? That is a really great example of them looking and utilising technology in a completely different way and winning in that space. Yeah, very cool. Any other examples that you can share? there’s many. mean, manufacturing is a huge one that’s really taken on from a technology point of view. And I know if you’ve listened to any of the podcasts from you guys that you’ve talked about some really

successful organisations on the Sunshine Coast that have utilised technology to jump forward and jump their competition. In all those spaces that…

they’re going to be the ones that are still here in 20 and 30 years time because they’re making those investments and they are investments because you’re having to invest into you know really high quality machines and software and probably most importantly people and your wages go from you know award -based to wages all of a sudden the senior engineer and that sort of thing but you’re then able to do things and complete compete internationally that that’s that’s pretty incredible you know that that’s happening right

now from the Sunshine Coast within kilometres, not even kilometres of where we sit here at Aura, there’s large organisations competing nationally and internationally utilising tech. Yeah, as you say, countless examples of businesses embracing tech and taking their business to the next level. But for those, you know, those small businesses or those businesses that are just trying to, you know, do a good job and deliver a good result for their clients or their customers.

I think that the key takeaway for me from this conversation is just look at how you can embrace tech in some way to make your business better, to make your business more efficient, to make your business more profitable, to make it more enjoyable for your team to do the work that they do. I think that’s the key takeaway for me as well. Yeah, be curious, have a look at what some of the other businesses in your space are doing and look at why they’re doing. think…

You know, we’re in a great community. I’ve always found people very engaging on the Sunshine Coast. you know, if there’s a, I don’t

hospitality, if you’re in Caloundra, go talk to someone in Noosa that’s doing some great things. They’ll share with you that you’re not really competing against the same. It’s quite a long drive, you know, so go and take them for a coffee, buy them something, you know, and ask them for their thoughts and that sort of thing. You’ll get a really good indication of where people are thinking and doing things differently in your industry. You’ve got to be a little bit curious about that. The technology is there and the applications and the software is there to support most

most businesses, most industries, how are you taking it? What have you done? Have you even Googled it? That sort of thing. It’s just as simple as some of those things where you go, what are the best in this industry doing? And if you’re using any sort of copilot or AI or anything off the side, you can just ask, it’ll go and find it all for you. So you can just ask, are the best people in hospitality utilising to differentiate with technology? It’ll probably spit you out 10 different things just like that.

Absolutely, and it’s no longer seeing technology as a cost, but seeing it as a differentiator and as a benefit to the business, I think is an important mindset shift to have. So Kris, thanks for joining me on the show today. Just for anyone who’s maybe in a business that could use some support with this sort of stuff, what’s the best way for…

or how do they know if they’re a good fit for Entag and what’s the best way to reach out if they want to work with you guys? Yeah, look, I think if you’re looking at it and you’re really wanting to make that mindset shift in your organisation that we want to utilise this as an enabler or a differentiator, then absolutely, we’d love to work with you and Entag.com.au, it’s the place to go. All right, and the Sunshine Coast Tech Industry Alliance, which you’re a board member, former chair of that for a couple of years, but now member of the board there.

who would be right to kind of connect with the alliance there and how do they do that? Yeah, so I think also through the website, so Sunshine Coast SC Tech.

but the people that we’re really wanting to engage with is those that are wanting to start to create this shift. So you may be a technology-based organisation or you may be a technologist. We’d really love to engage and go, this is what we’re doing. We’re trying to really lift that standard. so people can go, as a business, I know that I’ve got access to great technologists on the Sunshine Coast. As a business, I know that I can do this from the Sunshine Coast. Those two things we want to really lift.

Cool Kris, we’ll have the links to both Entag and the Sunshine Coast Tech Industry Alliance in the show notes for this episode. Kris, thanks for joining me on the show and just opening our minds to the idea of tech as not just being like some nerdy IT thing that we leave to someone else, but something that every business can embrace and grow. And should embrace. And should embrace. Thanks for joining me. And for you guys watching or listening, reach out to Kris if you need help with any of this stuff.

hit that subscribe button and follow on your podcast player so that you don’t miss another episode of the Coast and Commerce podcast and we’ll see you in the next one. Bye now. Cheers.